Episode 18 - Unlocking AI & Branding with Phil Pallen

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[: 00:00:00

So Lisa, would you like to do just sort of a little introduction to, to kind of make Phil feel nice and warm and ready for him to come on? I'm just gonna jump in. Phil, come on! Let's do this! Here he comes! Here he comes! Nice introduction. I know. I mean, well, thank you. Oh my gosh. Applause? Of course. Applause?!

I like it. I like it here already. It's so good to have you here and see, see your shining face. I can understand, it's good to be here, but I was going to say to you, I can understand why the question or the prompt, uh, it introduced me as overwhelming because you and I have known each other for literally so long.

in well over a decade. [: 00:01:00

Let's tell, tell the people about your journey. How did you, you know, end up as this major brand strategist, and now AI? And, you know, what got you interested in branding in the first place? So, I'll give you the short version of the story, but I moved out to L. A. with big dreams, coming from Canada, um, I graduated with my master's degree, thought I was supposed to do What everyone else did, which was go and work for someone.

he time, a jewelry designer, [: 00:02:00

So personal branding is really what I've done from the beginning. Of course, I've worked with companies along the way, but helping people, uh, position, build and promote their brands has really been my passion since day one. And I'm fortunate that this is all I've ever done. So 14 years later. I'll sometimes say my adult job is I own a branding agency and my fun job, much like what we're doing right now, is kind of fun.

I started creating my own content, uh, instead of just giving my own clients, you know, advice go and create content. I was like, well, I should probably start. Making videos, which I enjoy doing. I enjoy communicating in this medium. And without really a ton of expectations, thought I can post a video a week on YouTube.

Maybe that's a way [: 00:03:00

I work the most with Adobe. Um, ManyChat, I was a part of their summit a few months ago. I mean, there's so many cool brands that I get to be, uh, that I get to work with now. So the fun job is working as a content creator. And that's actually the majority of where my time goes now, uh, most days. I love it.

dvice about that for people? [: 00:04:00

I think I've said that even before AI, before social media. It's always been for me, like, what can you spend the maximum number of minutes doing that you really, really enjoy? So for me, creating videos, the process of creating videos, meant You know, and taking it seriously meant that I could put it on my calendar, treat it like work, hit a deadline, and in turn, the process of creating videos meant that I was constantly learning.

So I feel like if, if, if, if, if the origin is kind of rooted in something like that, make it as selfish as possible. What do you get from the process of podcasting, creating videos? Right. Um, I feel like so many amazing things can come from that. I'm kind of a nerd, so I love trying new AI tools and tips and marketing platforms.

And [: 00:05:00

And I just want to roll back to the whole branding, because if you're putting yourself out there, you need to have a package. So, what would be a basic thing for people to start off with, uh, as far as presenting themselves as a brand, as somebody who can speak on other products or their, you know, other companies?

worry about everything being [: 00:06:00

So that doesn't mean you can't have a nice, you know, lit. office environment, but I would say, don't let those things stop you from starting. Um, we have the most amazing access to technology now, like chat GPT that can become our brain brainstorm partner. So if it were me, funny enough, I'd probably start a chat GPT chat and say, Hey, I'm interested in adding a new vertical to my business, but I want it to be founded in something that I'm passionate about.

good prompt for people. Pay [: 00:07:00

Take notes. Yeah. That's a good prompt for, you know, for someone to start, cause you don't know where to start. And, you know, that's a good segue into the whole AI world that you've now, you know, You have a book out and I think, Neil, you have some questions about that and I'm so excited you have a book. I'm a cheerleader for you.

You know that , you are the best. You are the best. You've, you're like an OG, cheerleader, . And of all my projects, Lisa, and you and I have worked on so many cool things over the years. Um, we as like brand, as personal brands evolve. You and I are both examples of this. So. Um, I wasn't necessarily like a chatGBT whiz when it first came out.

how to interact with it. Go [: 00:08:00

Um, but generative AI tools are, they're not, it doesn't quite work that way. So sometimes it's a little overwhelming to know where to begin. I would say the main thing is, Start having a conversation with it like you would a human. So Lisa, the prompt that I just did on the spot isn't something I had pre written.

Sure, I might incorporate some best practices, like it's always a good idea to attach a number. You know, like, um, give me five questions. You know, let's explore three ways to Always good to attach a number so that it has some parameters. But I'm actually a big believer in that I can't write the perfect prompt for you.

ere. You guys, like, I don't [: 00:09:00

I didn't, like, rehearse everything I was going to say. And I feel like we need to go into You know, we need to approach AI with the same kind of, like, openness. Let's not put all of our pressure, all this pressure on ourselves, like, write the perfect prompt to get the perfect answer. Um, just start the conversation and iterate.

You know, you'll learn by doing that examples are helpful. If the output is crap, give it more input. It's, it's a lot like just a conversation independent of technology. I think what was really great is that Mark and I met you for the first time at Creator Camp last year in Boston, and then we were fortunate to chill out with you later and have a couple of drinks.

pired you to write the book. [: 00:10:00

Who is it for? And what can people get out of it? Good question. Uh, what inspired me to write a book? Um, a publisher wanting to pay me money was my inspiration to start writing a book because Lord knows how it's been. Yeah, question done. Now, Lord knows, had it been on my own accord, I just would have never prioritized this project.

But as soon as I got someone else involved and treated it like a client project, that actually made this thing come to fruition. So it's in fact. The first book, published book, on the topic of AI from Simon Schuster. The publisher is, is Adams Media, an imprint of Simon Schuster, which is the third largest publisher in the U.

u know, I'm in good company. [: 00:11:00

, allow us as small business [: 00:12:00

There's a second question answer, um, as a small business owners, uh, focus on high impact. Uh, work and also the work that we enjoy doing. There are lots of things in my business that I could delegate. But there are things that I actually really enjoy doing. I really like creating the graphics for my YouTube videos.

I don't like editing that, so I've delegated that. But there are so many instances now where I'm using AI, I'm actually delegating, you know, the writing of my scripts. To, to an AI tool. I can't imagine now writing a script for a video without, without using AI. Um, you know, I can open up a chat GPT channel or even better one that I've already trained previously on a project.

his one. Um, I've copied and [: 00:13:00

And then I might say, you know, here are some, here, here are five or six bullet points, takeaways of things that I think are particularly interesting about this platform. And if you've had a meeting with the, with the client upload that transcript as well, you would be amazed. At what, chat GPT or any generative AI tool.

I talk a lot about chat GPT, but Claw, Gemini, Magi, there's so many great ones out there. Um, you'd be amazed at how quickly it can write something because the, you know, the main thing here is that it can compute information much faster than our brains can. So let's let it do the computing and let's free up time for humans to do human things.

ness owner or a founder that [: 00:14:00

Um, I don't think anyone is going to be left behind. I think that that's a false. Uh, statement, uh, uh, put out there to create, uh, anxiety and we already have enough of that. So you will never, ever, ever hear me say, hop on AI train, you know, hop on the AI train or before it's too late. That's so dumb. Um, instead I would say something to the opposite.

focused on the right things [: 00:15:00

If you're trying to create some efficiencies, you're trying to scale your business, trying to get time back from from the work that you're doing. And you're curious about where you can plug AI into those things. That's the right amount of curiosity then to begin exploring a solution, but the best solutions are typically not discovered overnight.

So I think it's actually a much more methodical, responsible approach than wasting an entire day on the clock researching AI tools. My last recommendation would be, let me do that. I get paid for it. Um, surround yourself with a few creators that, you know, and trust to be able to make recommendations on platforms that might be worth your time and attention.

re AI was prevalent, um, and [: 00:16:00

So my business partner of nine years left last summer. We had worked together for nine years and she really oversaw the entire client side of my business. I'm very proud of her. She went off to launch her own business in a totally different industry, you know, something that was born from social media and born from really like the best practices that we've been preaching and sharing with our clients and audience.

to do that was by having AI [: 00:17:00

I mean, I think about drafting an email reply to someone and let's say it's like a really thoughtful and an important email and let's say that it doesn't contain sensitive or, you know, confidential information. I could, instead of sitting here for 20 minutes, 30 minutes, you wouldn't believe it, but that's how long it sometimes takes to write those emails.

Um, instead of doing that, I can paste the entire thread with two bullet points on what I want to say. And I had, I have ChatGPT trained to be able to write a response in my voice based on the interactions prior. And for me, because I'm using it so much in my business now, I pay for a Teams. Uh, membership, and that gives me, um, a greater amount of, of, uh, security and privacy.

does not train the model on, [: 00:18:00

It has, without a doubt, become my most important set of, uh, business tools and subscriptions. Have you, have you played much with, um, Apple's intelligence yet? It's not really available for, for me specifically here in Portugal because of GDPR and, and weird things, uh, with, uh, data privacy. But how, how does, have you played with it much and, and how does it compare to tools that you use today like ChatGPT and, and Claude and so on?

uh, products from them, like [: 00:19:00

It's just, oh, um, the vision pro the V yeah. Vision pro. Um. Apple has not yet proven to me that they deserve my time or, or attention in what they've created in the AI space. Um, maybe that will change, but it's just not something that I've felt compelled to spend time on. What I will say, tools like JATCPT obviously have an advantage because they were first to market.

There are tools that have been first to market. But I've done so irresponsibly, and that's also a concern of mine. Um, I advocate, uh, a lot for Adobe tools. I'm a very proud ambassador for Adobe Express, Adobe Acrobat, and, you know, Firefly, and a handful of what they've created. Adobe will be the first to admit that, in many cases, they're not first to market with some of these tools and technology.

first to market responsibly, [: 00:20:00

d to be concerned, going into: 2025

this next lap, if you will. [: 00:21:00

Mm hmm. The AI to work with you. You don't need such a large team that maybe some of the larger organizations to do. So does that sort of sort of level the playing field and maybe what you just said there about all the real sort of nitty gritty, maybe that's the harder part of still being a small business compared to a large organization.

d ask yourself the question, [: 00:22:00

I don't think it's impossible You know the work that I've done with my clients and how I poured myself into the projects that I've taken on I really pride myself on being You know someone that people want to keep in their corner Lisa's kept me in her corner for lots of years and it's not to say someone else can't do the job You know, it's not to say someone else can't do the job, but we should always be thinking about our own safety.

Goldman Sachs did a study about it close to two years ago now that said, um, um, uh, 60%, or I think it's like 64%, um, of Uh, people will be complimented by A. I. 30 percent will be completely unaffected and the remaining 7 percent or 6 percent would be replaced. So that's in the grand scheme of things, a very small percentage of people that will be replaced.

The truth is, [: 00:23:00

But, uh, an AI logo generator is not going to replace the thoughtfulness in the work that goes into. Brand identity development that I do over the course of several months, and I'll say one more thing on this Maybe what we're seeing is a widening of the gap between self starters educational resources Empowerment to do things yourself and then that luxury offering so if anything I would lean more into How can I be anti technology in some respect?

the ways in which I can give [: 00:24:00

It cost me all of 30 seconds to write and 50 cents to put a stamp on it. And maybe 2 cents to print. So like, do you see what I'm saying? Like I think there's a widening between the technology centric stuff and then the human stuff. As an investor, I'm like, I wanna get into like retreats, anti-technology, or like all, you know, ways to disconnect.

ally here. You guys are, I'm [: 00:25:00

So, um, January 14th is the pub date and, uh, dear friends have ordered it, you know, pre ordered it up to this point, but I am so excited for people to get it in their hands. That includes the first batch of people, um, that got it as part of attending. Uh, Ecamm Creator Camp, and I just, I have to give Ecamm a shout out of a hundred and fifty brands and tools that are mentioned in the book.

Ecamm was the first to support me in this endeavor, hosting me at Ecamm Creator Camp, you know, getting, uh, attendees of Creator Camp a copy of the book once they, you know, left a review of their experience. Katie and the team at Ecamm have just been So incredible, and I'm so proud of the relationship that I have with them.

I know you guys feel [: 00:26:00

So, in terms of sort of working with brands and reaching out to brands, them coming to you, how has that sort of developed within your, within your career? And I guess, like I say, that, that, I'm curious about that sort of personal element and like I say, then continuing to work with them and, and, and sort of having that sort of, that passion that you can sort of share amongst everybody.

t. Um, but the truth is, um, [: 00:27:00

Uh, with very little expectation that anything would amount from it right away. So Adobe found me, um, and asked me in the very early days to become an ambassador for them. I was ambassador 30 roughly around there. Now there's well over 300 around the world. Um, I, you know, I, I thought, well, this is a really cool tool.

I'm going to talk about it. Um, Uh, you know, I've got emails from brands I'd never seen before. I still get emails from brands I've never seen before. And I think to myself, I'm not going to not take on this brand deal, this partnership to create a video because I'm not the target market. Um, that's not my approach instead.

I'm really excited to learn about a tool that is someone else's. You know, uh, ideal tool. So, you know, right now I'm working on an e commerce, uh, really cool AI e commerce tool. That's not really my world. However, it is a world of my clients and it's certainly something that people around the world will benefit from.

So that's like [: 00:28:00

Chicken Wang. Like that's happened a few times. Um, so you just, you know, you never know, but normally it's really positive. These companies have invested a lot of time, you know, to, to, to get something off the ground. And it's, um, it's really cool. I think that ability just to say like. You know, create something, say something, be yourself, share what you love, and, and, and just having faith in that kind of organic way that life takes you, even when you've got a plan and you've got a focus of what you want to do, it's usually those slightly left field things which kind of take you in that direction and, and give you those opportunities.

Exactly. I think [: 00:29:00

I try to. Yeah, I try to. I try to. It's um, it's something I always think about. And I know people take my opinion with weight. Like they, you know, oh, Phil recommended this thing. That means he's tried it. So I do hold that in high regard.

What do you think is, um, gonna be the way forward for people who want to open up that relationship from progressing more? So like you say, you become an ambassador, you do a few videos for people, but I know you've also sort of been involved in live streaming for Adobe, and I know Lisa's been involved and done some things with you as well.

nities as they come through? [: 00:30:00

Even if I'm looking at hiring someone in my company, I don't normally have a big detailed job description that I'll hire them for. Normally, it's something really small, like, hey, I need your help with something very specific. And as you earn that and build that trust, opportunities expand. I've been the recipient of that with some of these brands that, you know, Adobe being the primary one.

w, I work, um, with Express, [: 00:31:00

So many, you know, so, live shows, like, so many cool things. I just, like, a lot of it is just, like, pinch me moments. I'm like, how the heck did I get here? Thanks to these good questions, you have me thinking about it. Tell me that. Oh, go ahead. I was just gonna say just to sort of wrap up that sort of final little section was that you do hear that kind of thing, you know, I want to be involved and I want to hire a person with the right character, the right idea of of the sort of person I want to be surrounding myself with.

We can train them in the tools they need, or we can kind of You know, give them the opportunities to work in a way that works with us. But we need the right person. And I guess that ability to be able to show that in some way is the key thing. And to do it quickly so that they're the person that does get hired.

a question. And this is for [: 00:32:00

How do you take care of yourself? How do you, how have you learned how to manage your time? How to have your self care? Know when to turn things off like what is your method of staying sane in the busyness of your life? It's something I'm not necessarily great at but I have to recognize that I operate in Marathons and sprints So some projects are marathons I have to chip away at them gradually others are sprints the challenge with doing so many different things people might need Things all at once and juggling that can definitely be a challenge.

October. Honey, I needed it. [: 00:33:00

You know, it was, it was. But I also, at the same time, I love the pressure. I love. The excitement around deadlines and pleasing people and winning contracts and doing things I'm proud of. Um, but you have to balance it. And, and I'm still learning how to do that. I, I, I recognize how I work. So I really like those like, okay, it's 100 percent now and it's going to be zero next week.

Exactly. I was just gonna ask[: 00:34:00

a quick question about, um, if I may, you have a, an up and coming private membership community, Brandmasters. Uh, can you give us a little sneak peek about what members can expect and how it will help them grow their brands? Absolutely. So this is my brand new project. Haven't talked about it very much because I've been entirely focused on the book, but I am, I have been, I've actually already created 50 video modules that really walk people through my branding process.

Start to finish, photography, brand positioning, brand identity development, social media, content strategy, all, and now AI, all of these things. Um, because I'm doing less client work, because I stay so busy with brands, this has been my way to let people in on my world, my brain, but also create a community around people that are building their brands and becoming brand masters.

what I think I can do in the [: 00:35:00

s ready, um, I think by March: 2025

Yeah. Perfect. All right. Thank you I'm so proud of you because you know, you are you are the brand master Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So just one last question to wrap things up What advice do you have for? content creators with their it with anything with their branding with being a content creator with Trying to tackle AI, what do you have for them?

know, have a lot of thought [: 00:36:00

Think about the things that bring you joy and build around that without this immense amount of pressure or stress to do it by a certain date or time. Such good advice. Mr. Phil, thank you so, so very much guys and sharing your knowledge and hanging out with us. It's, it's so good. So good. It's been brilliant.