Episode 21 - Dena Dahilig: Narrator for Corporate Technology & Commercial Voice Actor

[: 00:00:00

Without further ado, Dina, are you ready?

Come and join us. Say hello to the rest of the fam and thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me. It's great to hang with the amplifiers. Yeah. So we did meet at October's Creator Camp and I came away from that camp with lots of great ideas, a particularly fabulous idea for a podcast. And I thought, well, let me get through November and December, cause I've got a couple of other projects to wrap up and then I will start fresh in January.

he entire world was on fire. [: 00:01:00

I remodeled a house there that is now gone. And so it's it's my community that, that really got gutted, just completely gutted and it was no time to like do a podcast I had. I had nothing. I mean I could do like the sadness show, you know, and that's a terrible idea. So so I texted Lisa during the whole thing like, you know, are you doing okay?

And she was doing okay. And then I wrote another text to her saying, I don't, I don't think I can, I don't think I can do this. I do not have my head in the game. I don't know what I'm going to talk about. So I put that out there and I didn't. I didn't hear anything back from Lisa and a couple of weeks ago, I checked my text messages and I had never sent it.

member getting that message, [: 00:02:00

But But I'm just not in like the promote myself mode like at all. I'm, I'm really like focused on other things. So I thought about Phil Palin who you had on in January and I met him at Creator Camp. We talked about him doing his audio book, first time he's done an audio book and he was nice enough to send me the first few minutes of his audio.

listen. So I thought, well, [: 00:03:00

So I wanted to really, to them, about creating their own audiobooks. So far, so good. Amazing. I think this is going to be really, really interesting, because I know certainly Oh, good. I mean, I've interviewed so many authors on my podcast, and they love what they're doing. And then even just the being on camera is suddenly a different thing, let alone actually recording the whole audio book and that kind of thing as well.

hem into sort of the bits of [: 00:04:00

So yeah take it away Thank you. So so I'll give you some pros and I'll give you some cons. So the pros for voicing your own audio book would be like it's very personal. You have a personal insight. It is biographical. And your audience wants to hear those things in your voice. Like I am listening to Mel Brooks autobiography and there is no way anyone else could do that autobiography.

I want to hear his voice. So there's that. You are known as a public speaker, you are used to speaking in front of large groups of people, you are used to speaking into a microphone, you're used to hearing your own voice, because you're going to spend a lot of time hearing your own voice if you're going to record your own audio book.

s fun, or it sounds fun. You [: 00:05:00

I have a dog that is snoring right next to me. You know, I could not record an audiobook right now because the the microphone would hear that. So so maybe you don't have the space, but then you also don't have perhaps the budget to go and rent a studio, a production house who could record that for you.

So those are a couple of cons. Also deadlines. Audio books could be a big con, like you need to get this thing out the door. You really don't have the time to learn all the skills that you would need to do your very first audio book because your deadline is gonna come and go faster than you know. And then there's one last thing to think about when you're weighing whether or not you should do it.

nice way of saying this. So [: 00:06:00

You know, maybe to the listener, they just can't put those two things together and your message is going to get lost with people hearing your voice in particular doing that reason to maybe think about a narrator, or let's say you you are not a native English speaker and your voice to Western ears is you know, like you need a little better diction or other kinds of phrasing that, that are, are a challenge for you, that listeners would pick up on.

stood. Now, in both of those [: 00:07:00

Right? So by the time you put them together into an audio book, they have already heard that and they already they're already accepting you as a narrator. So those are things to think about pros and cons. So let's dive into fiction first. If you have written some fiction, and I say this with love, I say this with so, so much love.

amazing. They give depth and [: 00:08:00

So so listen to some of that. Narrators too have followings. And their fans will follow them to a book and a, and an author that they are not familiar with because they love this particular narrator. I might be guilty of that, that there are narrators. I will, I will listen to whatever they do 'cause their voices are amazing.

ce for those characters, you [: 00:09:00

I mean, not just like 40 pages later, but maybe three years later. So consistency over the, the arc of the piece is really, really important. And if you really want to be narrating your own fiction book Go get a little coaching and by a little coaching, I mean, spend a few weeks really getting to understand the ins and outs of doing an audio book and bringing out those characters and then evaluate it for yourself.

Okay. So that's, that's fiction. I think, though, I'm really, really talking to nonfiction writers, though, today. The core, the core of what I'm sharing really applies to nonfiction. So if you're working with a publisher, they will probably, like they did with Phil, they will probably send you a handful of narrators to listen to.

will deliver within the time [: 00:10:00

He says, quote, the publisher hadn't even considered the possibility of me recording it myself. So I had to prove myself first with audio with multiple samples, invest in a proper space. They didn't offer a budget for it. For recording, and they told me that 1, 000 was higher than they normally offer. So they gave him a small stipend to buy equipment to set up a space.

rking with a publisher. Self [: 00:11:00

You will be purchasing your own gear. Gear is generally microphone, oh, at its basic, at the real core, microphone, USB, USB mic, computer, software. That's like the smallest you can go. If you have a condenser microphone, you go from that microphone to an interface to the computer and your software. There is so much to talk about in there.

I am not going to do that today. But so just getting your gear set up is one thing. Creating a quiet space for yourself. Closets are great. There is that. If you choose to pay for a studio, that's going to come out of your own pocket that is not cheap. And it is a lot of hours. If you're going to record it yourself, you will be recording and editing and mastering and recording and editing generally for nonfiction is probably going to take you.

I would say maybe four [: 00:12:00

And I sent Lisa the link to them because they are awesome. So I finished recording and editing. I send them my files. They master them to ACX standards and is Amazon's audio book marketplace. And ACX has very similar. specific technical technical details that you need to you need to be at if you're going to submit files to them for them to accept it and put it on audible.

. So lots of hurdles, right? [: 00:13:00

It will look at the script. It will look at your audio files, it will compare the two, and any words you have missed, any phrases that didn't come out correctly. exactly as they are written, it will give you a whole list of all of those things that you need to change. So that's a, that's a great benefit of being with a publisher.

that they are identical and [: 00:14:00

Love it. Love it. Let's keep doing it. Okay. Okay. So I've got, I've got five. Five quick tips. If you're determined that you were going to do it, you've bought your gear, you are in a quiet space, you are hydrated and you are ready to record. So record, let's say the first five or 10 minutes, first chapter or whatever, and then send it to somebody and have them listen for the audio quality.

So that's what Phil did. He sent off samples to his publisher. Find someone who knows what good audio quality for audio books should be and have them listen to it. Before you spend 10 hours make sure that your first part is just spot on and you're ready to go. Number two, you are narrating your book.

ading your book, which means [: 00:15:00

So allow it to bring out your personality and allow yourself to have opinions that come out about what you're writing. So I'm going to give you an example. I did an audio book not too long ago. It was a technical book, not quite a textbook, but it sure could have been. This particular style is hard, hard, hard to find the storytelling in.

sentences. Here it is, okay. [: 00:16:00

Do you understand a word? I didn't. When I first read it, I had to find the story. I'm building a thing. It's going to be like these other things. And then I think that it's going to be such a small thing, but really it's going to change the bigger thing in such a way that now we're concerned. That's the story.

ributed systems, because now [: 00:17:00

Lots, lots, lots in that one sentence. So make sure that you're bringing out that storytelling. It's number two. Number three lots of non nonfiction have lists. Phil had some great lists in his and the pitfall of lists is that you think that you need to read them. With lots of pauses in between, and you don't, you can read them as if they are a paragraph.

So I'll give you one more example, same book, same dry, dry, dry content. Some of the typical metrics used for determining the relative maintainability of an application based on components include the following. Component coupling. Component, I can't even say it, component coupling, component cohesion, cyclomatic complexity, component style, technical versus domain partitioning.

ach one of those has its own [: 00:18:00

Or they're going to go back to the written script, your written book, to know what each one of those things is. But for the sake of the audiobook, you don't have to create time in there for them to get it. You want them to get the overall understanding of the, a sentence, and if that sentence is important enough to them, they will go back and they will pick up on those individual things.

ur book. By the time you get [: 00:19:00

So have your, the first part of your book sound more like what you brought to the end of your book. It's number four. Number five. You have done your book, and now you're going to do your next book. So why don't we think about flipping the process? Consider writing with audio in mind. Write as you speak write with opinions, write even write and then read as you go.

what flows and what doesn't [: 00:20:00

And I want to give you some examples of authors who have really, really nailed the whole bringing out their personality in their audio books or bringing something extra to their audio books. The first one is John Acuff. Are you guys familiar with him? he does a lot of like productivity books, writes a lot about goals.

He wrote a book called start. He wrote another book called finish. But he wrote a book called all it takes is a goal. And in that book he says right at the very beginning that there's going to be bonus content, so he's going to add in the audio book only things that he didn't include in the written text extra stories, or he's going to expand on a particular story that he told, so it encourages people who who have purchased Thanks The the printed book to also buy the audio book for those extras.

And I think he is [: 00:21:00

I'll, I'll let you, I'll let you Google him. But David Goggins wrote a book called Never Finished. And his narrator was Adam Skolnick, Adam Skolnick. So Adam narrated all of the written chapters. From the book, but then after each chapter, David Goggins was interviewed by Joe Rogan. So Joe would ask him questions about the chapter you just heard.

g audio to to expand on what [: 00:22:00

This one I want to talk about is talking to strangers what we should know about the people we don't know. And in that book he uses music that takes us in and out of chapters where he has quoted people. He has their actual audio so that you're hearing their voice. In that quote, instead of him, his voice quoting them, and then anytime he has like something from the media, a news clip or something like that, he plays the original clip.

Now those are things you would have to get permission for, obviously, but it's a great way of adding like all of this texture to your audio book that you can't do with a written book. So so just to sort of recap,

y behind you. If you want to [: 00:23:00

It just, as you were telling the different things, the storytelling and then just the process, I'm thinking of a person who's doing a solo podcast, that a lot of these elements can be thrown into there to make it not so dry and just speaking. And I, I just, like, my brain was exploding. I was like, oh, that sounds like a good idea.

sted lots of time and you've [: 00:24:00

You know, why not add that, add that extra, you know, in your voice? It's brilliant. I was just about to say the same thing that Lisa mentioned. I mean, really insightful points that you brought up there and just the way that you're explaining things to people and many people here do podcasts as well and I was just thinking the same thing.

I'm, I'm trying to do a little podcast as well and just applying some of The points that you've highlighted today, I can see making a difference in just general podcast as well and having just the, the, the, not just the equipment, but you know, having water by your side, keeping hydrated and what you mentioned, I thought was really interesting is going back to the beginning of the book.

because you mentioned about [: 00:25:00

Your intonation, anything over that long period of time. So maybe as you start off a little bit, well, I'm just getting into this and then you're maybe more happy or the other way around, maybe you just fed up at the end of the audio book and you were an enthusiastic at the beginning. So maybe you have to be a bit more, you know.

Debbie Downer at the beginning of the book in line with how you felt at the end. But either way, I think it's really interesting where you have a different sort of perspective starting the book versus at the end. So really insightful and I'm excited now to put some of these. Yeah, can I tag onto that?

rom the interview. What, you [: 00:26:00

Yeah. And I'm finding that, you know, so again, all of this is, it's so much crossover. I'm, I'm, I'm excited, Neil, you're excited. I'm excited. Pumped. Is that the word they use in the US? Pumped. Pumped. Pumped. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, that's awesome. And you know, Neil, you're Or if you're a teenager, super pumped. Yeah.

Is really, do they say that? No, they don't say that. I don't know. Neil, your podcasts are great. I mean, I'm really curious to, to hear what you'd like to change. Because you, you do come off as just relaxed and easygoing and kind of guy you want to know and, you know, have a coffee with. So yeah, so I'm curious to see where you, where you take it.

comes with practice and, and [: 00:27:00

So did, did you take lessons as well when you started off? How did you sort of? Get so good and, and, and get better and improve. That's a really good question. In the nineties, I took a couple of classes. The first one I was terrible. I I did not understand how to read a piece of copy. I just, I, I don't know.

I wasn't even that young. I was like mid twenties and, oh my God, did I just date myself right now? 20. So what minute did I. We're terrible at maths, don't worry, we'll never work it out. Thank you, as is anyone who might see this. So I was, I was five and I just didn't understand what I was doing. So but I did the second class that I did.

could do anything you want. [: 00:28:00

But okay, okay. And at the time, you know, you had to go, you had to have an agent. If you wanted to work, you had to go to the agents to record because you didn't have home studios. There was no internet to speak of. So if I had a real job, how was I going to jump out of my job and go and audition?

end of: 2013

is the time to jump in. So I [: 00:29:00

It is gorgeous. And I'm going to miss it. But I had I had the booth and I started auditioning on some of these pay to play sites, which essentially is you pay. Way too much money, but every day you get auditions that you can submit over email. You don't have to go to your agent, you don't have to have an agent.

been booking voiceover since: 2014

And I just dove so deeply into that kind of training that eventually you start to get. Good. You know, you can't train on something for so long and not pick something up. So that's kind of how it happened. Did that answer your question or did I go off on a tangent? No, you did. And to answer your question, I mean, you haven't seen me play golf.

So no matter how much training you get. You can still be terrible. But anyway but then golf isn't really a sport, is it? No, no, it's not. It's just an excuse for a long walk. But there you go. Exactly. Let's start, let's start getting to the golf thing now. I was going to ask you one follow up question.

It might seem an odd [: 00:31:00

But when I do audiobooks, I sit down for it. Because literally, you're, you're in talking for five or six hours a day. I have a really comfy chair. But for if I'm doing a 30 second commercial and I'm spending 10 15 minutes on it, then, then I stand. Standing is always preferable. You know, you're more, you're grounded.

nd Netflix, you know, having [: 00:32:00

Thank you very good. The thing I find fascinating, I actually did an audio course. I think it was for listenable and they, they approached me and asked me to do so that, but they also wanted the text as well. And I really played around with that in terms of should I have done each of the modules because they had to be like less than three minutes each module or something.

Should I actually. Just do bullet points like I would if I was doing a podcast and read it, and then do the text afterwards, or do I write it out and then read it, and then I came into all of those things that you mentioned about how it sounds and the inflections and all of those things, and I found it a fascinating kind of process, and I, I did the best I could at the time, it was a few years ago now, but I can sort of really sort of understand what it was that you were saying, and I think Thank you.

the fact that because it was [: 00:33:00

There's something that you can do, you know, All the things that you mentioned if you can put that into practice, it's gonna make it much, much better. But if I was having to do that for something which was unrelated to me personally, I can see how I would be terrible at it because I would, I wouldn't be able to kind of create it with the skill and the understanding like you did when you were reading just that there's sort of few sentences earlier on.

So I think understanding like say you can do it for your thing is still very different than someone who's who's got those skills and can actually just Do it professionally in a really sort of high quality way. So what did you end up doing? Did you do bullet points or did you write it out? I wrote it out partly because I knew that was part of what they wanted to do.

And of course, when you sort [: 00:34:00

I think if I was doing it now, especially with AI as well, I'd probably do it the other way around. And I talk about all the things I wanted to and allow it to be sort of worked in a, in a, in a better way from a text point of view from there. But yeah, I might actually go back and do another one and see, see how it comes out as well.

And but yeah, it's, it's a, it's a fascinating process and yeah, something I wasn't quite sure. Was going to materialize in whichever way. But yeah, it really did make it. I do wonder people who use chat GPT or other AI tools to write for them. I wonder if they would have the connection to the copy because they didn't really actually write it.

ar that you are connected to [: 00:35:00

So, great reasons to do it yourself, great reasons to hire a narrator. Amazing. So, Lisa, do you want to finish us off? Is there is there one final piece of wisdom you want to bring out of Dina before we let her go? Just you've given one piece of advice, you already shot that, just what, what to cheer people on to just to get the courage up to do it in the first place?

written something somewhere, [: 00:36:00

Sit down with your phone. We all have really good microphones in our pockets. Just record it and send it to a friend or if you know somebody who is in the audio Industry, send it to them and have them give you some feedback. You know, are you connecting to it? You know, is, is this a, is this a sound that people would want to listen to?

Just jump in. There's no harm in jumping in. Do it. People need to hear that because you know, they'll sit in the corner and not not move. Yeah. Thank you. Oh, well, then, you know, seriously call me and I will be your cheerleader. Yeah, because I am all over people doing that. I mean, you know, yeah, there goes my industry.

u are that person. Bring it. [: 00:37:00

And I think we're all going to be better off from having heard that and going back and making some notes and all of those things as well. So yeah, thank you so much indeed for your time and and all the effort you did. Lovely to meet you again, virtually having spent time in camp. It was so nice. And yeah, hopefully we can, we can hang out again very soon.